Archive for October, 2008

A little more insight can lift the suffering
October 14, 2008

Advaita Post, Volume 9, Number 15

Do you understand why you aren’t able to see yourself so well?



InZicht 10. No. 3 (September 2008) Interview with Douwe Tiemersma by Pia de Blok

Relationships, Part 2


Pia: Our cat Polle quite naturally lets all the other cats come into the garden. The young cat of our son was there recently and was hissing at Polle, but Polle didn’t react.

Douwe: That’s an enlightened animal.

So with enlightened people too, it doesn’t matter?

No, the energetic ‘I’-dynamic isn’t a factor any more. Because the infinity of self-being is always there.  They get along well with one another.

When energies are extinguished, the relationship may end for one person while for another it may still continue for a longer time.  Where do those energies for continuing to hold on come from? Is that karma perhaps?

When the energetic fields of two self-beings come together within a larger field, it’s a very positive experience. That keeps people together. When one prefers to make a separation, it happens because he or she sees that as a way towards further expansion. Then he withdraws his energy back from the earlier togetherness. When the other person still perceives that togetherness as a positive experience, then of course you have a problem.
There is not much to say about the way it happens. You can say it’s a matter of karma. Karma is a certain quality and structure of very basic energies.

If you believe in karma.

I look at the energetic patterns of people that have formed in their own lifetime. You can call that karma. The patterns of feeling, guiding, expectations, ideas, focal points, responses are all a factor when two people come together. Some pairs of patterns get along better together than other combinations. When it clicks between two different people, you say “each jar has its own lid.”  You can see it energetically.

Yes in this one life, because as long as you believe in previous births  you will again be talking about an interest or a goal.

Yes, but I leave that open.

Relaxation of the ego

Is extinguished energy, like that of a shooting star, a worn out star?

You refer to the star as the extra energy that is released by the coming together of two people, by the togetherness.  That brings an enthusiasm, an energy, a joy and that extra energy can of course disappear when the combined energy is no longer experienced. Then you get a retreat back into their own individual territories. That has to do with the karma of this life.

You can say that on an energetic level there are certain remains from processes that have expired. When a relationship has been present and has in one way or another ended, then leftovers always remain in the individual energetic atmosphere, and that is what we call karma.

I frequently see that it resolves itself in time.

Yes, then it’s a question as to whether it’s really one hundred percent resolved, or if there’s still a residue.

Can people do something about that?

Then you have come to the main point, and that is no longer energetic. When you really experience that, then all the processes aren’t so important. There is always unity. That’s not something that a man can create. The only possibility is to stay with that understanding.

Do people need conflict?

People remain in conflicts as long as they stick to themselves as a ‘I’-person, an ego. Egos always want to expand. We have already spoken about that, especially about the possibility of a relaxation of the ego when a person is in love. When there isn’t a total relaxation and release, the ego uses its strength to expand itself at the expense of the other person. That means that it’s always in conflict with others. So you see the fundamental inner conflict, that it really wants unity, while still retaining it’s limited form.

In non-duality, there really aren’t energies that function any longer in a limited way.  But as long as openness isn’t recognized  you see  people running after relationships that seem to be impossible.  Sometimes they even alienate themselves from society by throwing themselves into an unrealizable relationship. What do you say to such people?

They will have to see what is going on within themselves. Such a fixation arises from a very limited standpoint and from blinders.  From a somewhat greater distance you can see how such things bring problems. Of course, if that’s how it is, then that’s how it is. You have to accept it. All you can hope for is that the suffering of others will stop and that can happen only through their realization of how things really are: that such a limited view isn’t necessary, that a much larger space exists. You frequently find that certain things wear off in the course of a lifetime. Nevertheless, you see all the suffering it has caused.

Non-duality and individual energies

So you can view the dynamics of the relationship between two “I”- persons from the level of the feeling-sense energies. So there is life, the individual living atmosphere, a sort of territorial field. One field can connect to another and then you get the dynamics of a relationship. When two people come together, there is still a separation, but they can touch each other (Douwe took two round coasters and lay the two coasters just touching one another). Thus they have a communication. Also from a distance, “I say something against the other” (the coasters move a bit apart from one another), there may be a communication and information transfer.  That’s how it usually happens. But in fact with real communication there is always a degree of overlap (one coaster moves a little over on top of the other). And really, a relationship is only possible because there is a unity in the depths. (The one hand laid a small section of one coaster over another and the other hand motioned to the floor in order to indicate depth). The depth of unity is usually not experienced in the field of duality of individual people. So people want to achieve a complete unity on the level of duality, but it doesn’t seem to be feasible on that level. You always have to deal with the with differences and separations in the experience of a practical situation. It’s only possible to be completely open when you recognize the depth of unity (he lay the coasters flat on top of one another and with the other hand motioned depth, towards the floor).
A third person may come along (picked up a third coaster and laid it near the two that lay precisely on top of one another), who attracts one of the two and tries as much as possible to create a unity. That means competition, because the other party focuses there also. Then strong energies arise. That is a whole dynamic.

But that is all on the personal level.

That’s all on the personal level; that’s how it works. If you try to look at it in this way though, you can get a clearer picture. You can recognize the processes. It also shows that the possibility of partial integration of this level in everyday life is only possible because there is that deep basis of unity, which is always there (hand goes again to the ground). And that you therefore don’t need to remain on the personal level.

When there really are those rare ongoing connections between two people, including a one hundred percent experience of unity, what can  you say about that?

Then apparently, there is the realization of complete unity, where forms no longer function in a restrictive manner; then there is absolutely no relationship and no relationship problems, then there is universal love everywhere and Silence, which goes beyond everything.

In conclusion, the position: What to bustle around about: do people really live in a fictional world?

What is fictional in the world stems from the individual and from societal projections. As you see through these things the problems caused by them fall away. As long as people are stuck in their own projections, they suffer. That is sad, especially because it’s not necessary. A little more insight can eliminate the suffering.